SDAST Chat Meeting # 89: Wednesday 31st March 2004 Those present: Carol Anne Oxborrow, Jerome Chenevez, Sami Maisala, Stefan Larsson, Niels Joergen Westergaard Subjects discussed: - 1) End-of-March AIs (CAO,ALL) The usual dreary re-dating of things people have forgotten to do. INstrument modelling functions: response matrix, energy resolution position resolution etc. Emails should be exchanged about what is required beyond NJW's response matrix. Silvia's famous spectral step MAY have been due to a source extraction bug that SL's recently corrected and should be documented in Known Issues of OSA 3.1. Otherwise, no one else seems to be able to find this step in their spectra. - 2) GPS and GCDE results (ALL) A new source seen (ATEL 261), but not by JEM-X. Otherwise not much of interest here beyond Peter's nice lists of found sources, all of which are known. - 3) Crab calibrations (NJW) NJW completed systematic analysis of all on axis Crab data to update response matrix and will soon deliver these to ISDC. Also made a Technical Note about these calibrations, and completed a `repair kit' for mending spectra obtained with obsolete response matrices. Good work NJW!!!!! - 4) Spectral fitting (SL) New ARFs work fine. Differences being determined between j_src_spectra-3.5.1 and 3.5.2 results. JC found big differences for Cyg X-1 analyses. j_src_spectra-3.5.3 much improved over the other versions, installed under Peter's environment - 5) Electronic calibration (CAO) New version of j_calib_adc to be delivered very soon, with corrections for data with strange anode switch values. Have to determine if these originate at ISDC or onboard. - 6) Agenda items for SDAST meeting in Copenhagen (ALL) Mosaicking Good restaurant (Fiasco?) Imaging with and without background corrections The shared software library Instrument status; ISDC news; OSA status and plans for next OSA; Common instrument modelling functions - 7) AOB SM wants suggestions for SWGs with weak sources in that can be used to test his latest background handling s/w and libraries. Next chat: Wednesday 21st April at 11.00. Topic: Spectral analysis and response matrix. **** Logging Started : Wed Mar 31 10:52:28 MEST 2004 *** jerome (~jerome@uhuru.dsri.dk) has joined channel #jemxadr > Hi Jerome!!!! END Bonjour! > God dag!! *** smaisala (~smaisala@gemini.astro.helsinki.fi) has joined channel #jemxadr > Hi Sami - we won't be many today: Peter's on holiday, Silvia can't *** larsson (~larsson@tenma.dsri.dk) has joined channel #jemxadr > make it, and we're waiting to see if anyone else remembers. END > Hi Stefan! END Hi! END Hello Sami and Stefan! Nice to read you. END Hello! END CAO is just gone see if NJW is awake :-) END *** njw (~njw@uhuru.dsri.dk) has joined channel #jemxadr Hi, sorry for being absorbed in something else END > So now that we're all here let's get moving, because we've all got a > deadline today. > First point: > 1) End-of-March AIs (CAO,ALL) > First for NJW: > AI030828_1 NJW 31 Mar 2003 Look into sources moving parallel to ONGOING COSY / COSZ axes giving problems with vignetting, esp. GRS 1915 make that April 25 > Okay, 'tis done. END > Next for PK and SMN so that won't need discussing. END > Just a warning to you SL, remember these, we don't discuss them now: > AI27.16 SL 15 Apr 2004 Verify that XSPEC c-statistic approach works OPEN AI27.18 SL 15 Apr 2004 Run rev. 53 data on GRS1915 (PIDs 65, 66) ONGOING and compare results with NL's results AI27.22 SL 15 Apr 2004 Include background subtraction in source OPEN extraction components in time for OSA 4.0 > Next for NJW again: > AI040121_1 PK,NJW 25 Mar 2004 Make first draft of jemx.shared1.c library OPEN with headers of suggested shared functions and circulate to the rest of SDAST make that April 25 It is a Sunday! END sorry, April 26 then END > Let's take all of the following one at a time: > AI_MMM_3 SL,PK,JC,NJW 26 Mar 2004 Decide on a list of required common modelling OPEN functions, possibly implementing different algorithms AI_MMM_7 ALL 19 Mar 2004 Check their output spectra to see if we all get OPEN the same strange step due to vignetting problem AI040303_1 CAO 12 Mar 2004 Write update to Know Issues file at ISDC OPEN detailing conditions where gain smoothing fails AI040303_2 SL 12 Mar 2004 Write update to Known Issues files at ISDC OPEN detailing the spectral jump problem for off axis sources. AI040303_3 ALL 31 Mar 2004 Write email to CAO detailing expected OPEN improvements in ISSW for OSA 4.0 AI040303_4 NJW 31 Mar 2004 Update CORX/Y-MOD to remove gigantic NULL OPEN values from the `inactive' area of the detector > So what about the modelling functions guys? Any progress, or just a new > date? END No progress... RND A month away since PK is off for 2 weeks. END > My AI040303_1 is closed. END Actually, I do not really know what this is about... Maybe we should redefine it more precisely? END > Yes, could we perhaps get the ball rolling on this one, simply by discussing > a little what sort of modelling is expected: spectral fits? Where is > XSPEC deficient? Light curve fits? Timing analysese (haven't you already > a whole library for this stuff, Stefan?) END I think it is essentially instrument modelling we are talking about? I've understood the modelling (here) as the calculation of the probability > Like the response matrix? END for getting a detector count with a x,y value for an incoming photon. This includes the energy resolution and the position resolution END Yes, the response matrix is a part of it. END Yes I agree with this NJ. > Okay, I'll make that a little clearer in the AI. Can we start the ball > rolling by exchanging emails about what needs to be modelled/done beyond > the response matrix? END Ok, thank you for these precisions. END > And new due date for the AI? END End of April. END > I've put 26th April. Any comments? END No N n N > Okay, next AI: Has everyone checked their spectral output to see if they > get the same strange step as Silvia? END Haven't seen it in the Crab analyses END I have looked at Silvias spectra and I am not sure what jump she refers to. The spectra are a bit noisy. END I am looking at Cyg-X1 spectre from rev 18 and 21... I cannot see that jump there. END I have found an interpolation bug in the src extraction version > So shall we say that this one's done? Everyone's taken a bit of a sniff in OSA3.1 which could cause some jumps maybe. END > around and we've found bug, so that's one good outcome. I'll close this > one. Any comments? END The bug id fixed. END i which version Stefan? END Not deliverd yet Jerome. END > Could you send me details of this bug for the analysis anomalies page > so that I can document what's been done to cure Silvia's problem, Stefan? OK CAO. END > END > SL you've got the next AI: > AI040303_2 SL 12 Mar 2004 Write update to Known Issues files at ISDC OPEN detailing the spectral jump problem for off axis sources. > I've done one like this: you just send and email to Isabelle at ISDC and > tell her it's to be included in the Known Issues file, and she does the > rest. Could you do this soon? You could also warn about the just-corrected > bug that presumably was in OSA 3.1. END That is IF there is a jump problem. We just concluded there is maybe none? END > But it's still a bug that probably had some effect. The spectrum Silvia > showed at Munich certainly had a problem. END Sorry i am not sure I understand... You have found a bug stefan the jump does not seem to be certain, right? Is the bug related to the jump?? OK you are right the bug should be reported. END END > When can you do it? New due date? END Set it a few weeks off but I will try to do it fast. END > Okay. Next one we've all failed to do: > AI040303_3 ALL 31 Mar 2004 Write email to CAO detailing expected OPEN improvements in ISSW for OSA 4.0 > If the freeze is end of May, how about end of April for detailing what > we expect to achieve with OSA 4.0? END OK. OK ok ko > Now: > AI040303_4 NJW 31 Mar 2004 Update CORX/Y-MOD to remove gigantic NULL OPEN values from the `inactive' area of the detector > When can you get this done NJW? END Friday, I believe END > Okay > There are a couple of forgotten AIs here about shared software: > AI040121_1 PK,NJW 25 Mar 2004 Make first draft of jemx.shared1.c library OPEN with headers of suggested shared functions and circulate to the rest of SDAST AI_MMM_1 PK, SL 19 Mar 2004 Agree on a spectrum output function and OPEN develop prototype > Should these have a shared due date, and if so what? END > Hello? > Okay, I'll change the month from March to April. > Any comments about AIs in general? END We've had that one before, so April 26 should do END > next on the agenda: - 2) GPS and GCDE results (ALL) > What do our scientists have to add? I looked at the GPS data while I was > instrument representative, that was in revolution 157, and saw nothing - > absolutely nothing at all. END I think we already have seen the results when Peter has sent his last GCDE results.. > Any comments on Peters findings? END I had no time to look and saw nothing.... END I can just say that there was a new source (one of the las ATEL) that we do not have seen... END That was ATEL 261 END > Any other comments? END No > NJW can you tell us a little about: > - 3) Crab calibrations (NJW) > NJW? Well, I've sent out the TN on these matters. I've run systematically through the Crab calibrations (on-axis) that exist with OSA3 and j_src_spectra-3.5.1 For this kind of analysis I've also made a 'repair kit' to substitute the ARF that Stefan provides in jmxi_srcl_arf.fits with an updated one. I'll deliver the new RMF files to ISDC when I've got some feed-back that the new ARFs work. > Any comments? END Jerome is looking into how big the difference between j_src_spectra-3.5.1 and -3.5.2 really is. Then this work should be repeated with -3.5.2 spectral extraction. END Here I can tell (as I mentioned above) that I am finished with the analysis of 6 scws spectra of Cyg-X1 from rev 18 and 21 (NJW's period 008). The new ARF woks fine, but the differences are not big (should tehy be?) On another hand there seems to be a BIG difference between results from j_src_spectra-3.5.2 and j_src_spectra-3.5.1. I would like we look at these results together NJW. END > Any comments? END Stefan, do you have a comment on the differences between 3.5.1 and 3.5.2 ? END I have one more question, What is the situation in vignetting problem and where can I found the latest version? END The new ARF is adapted to j_src_spectra-3.5.1 and should not be used with 3.5.2. I presume that the main difference is at soft energies, right? Yes Stefan. I thought about differences BEFORE applying the new ARF! END OK which ever ARF you use the difference I am working on a plot of those differences and I will send it to you. END is big becouse 3.5.1 does not take energy deoendence of detector resolution into account. 3.5.2 does. Ok! END In the present version (3.5.3) which is installed in Peters environment at ISDC this is done more accuratly. I am still working on it. END Thanks Jerome. Please send plot and any other results you might think useful. END You are wellcome Stefan. END > Okay, thanks for that fine discussion. I think it's cleared up quite a > few things. Any more comments, or can we move on? END N Y Move... > Next - 5) Electronic calibration (CAO) Move on > I just want to say, that I > 've been working on updating the ECAL software for the strange alerts > we get. I've found some very odd data occassionally, and I think we need > to look into whether these arise at ISDC or actually on board. Other than > that, a new version which will no longer produce spurious errors should be > delivered today. Any comments? END N n N N > last specific agenda point: > - 6) Agenda items for SDAST meeting in Copenhagen (ALL) > All suggestions are welcome, either now, or by email to me. END I think Mosaicking is definitly an item for this next meeting. We also have to think about a good restaurant... END > Trust a frenchman! END Yes I believe that! END > Fiasco! END > Well, we can think about that. What about other business? END Calibration issues. Like the stuff NJ did. but also what else it would be nice if e.g. Sami could report on image analysis with and w/o background correction END can and needs to be done, both on a shorter time scale and on a longer regular bases. END > Yes, I was going to suggest that one of our chat topics should be > imaging with and without BKG, source finding with and without BKG, Shared S/W is also a topic END > spectral extraction with and without etc. etc.. We really do need to I have just made new bkg models and I'd like to test them. Any suggestions of nice weak sourcs and their SWGs END > be thining about whether the BKG software actually improves things. END Sorry, sourcs = sources. END > Of course there will be the standard items on the agenda: instrument > status; ISDC news; OSA status and plans for next OSA; END We should discuss the common modelling functions and how to implement them. END > What about weak sources and their SWGs for Sami anybody? Any suggestions? > END I can probably cough up a couple of examples very soon; I'm already looking at these results (for the survey) END I am going to write an email to Sami about a ScW he could look at. END > Thanks Jerome and NJW. END Actually I have now a catalog of ISSW found sources - I'll put it in the ftp area and send out a mail END > Could you send it to me for the forum too? END OK > Any other AOB? END N N > Can I suggest that our next chat be Wednesday 21st April at 11.00? Thanks! and no other comments. END > JC and I have been discussing the effectivity of going through the AIs Chat time is Ok END > when all that there's to be done is find a new date, so we'll handle > the AIs differently next time, probably person-by-person. Please try > and get some of these really old ones put out of their misery soon! END Ok. Bon appetit! END OK, goodbye and enjoy your afternoon END *** njw has left channel #jemxadr : (njw) OK. Lunch waiting! I'm on my vacation 7th-22th April so I cannot be here at that time. END *** Signoff: larsson () > For the topic I suggestion weak sources and background handling. END Bye *** jerome has left channel #jemxadr : (Bye) > Okay, we'll find another chat topic. END > have a good Easter everyone! END